Oops, I forgot my camera. Can I have your photos?
Launches
I attended the official launch of a store two weeks ago. Actually, I attended two launches for two different stores – one on Thursday, and another on Friday. I had a particular ‘job’ to do at these launches and I thought I’d take my camera along and take a few photos.
Thursday
Thursday’s event was great fun. It was well organised. A local ‘celebrity’ was there to cut the ribbon, a professional photographer took photographs, and the shop owner also had a camera.
Friday
Friday’s event was also fun, although a marketing agency who were, allegedly, supposed to show up at 11:00 that morning, didn’t turn up until 2.15 that afternoon. By the time they turned up we had the show on the road and I had taken a few photos too. The marketing crowd started setting up their gear, and their Team Leader noticed that I had a camera.
‘I’d like to download your photos’
The Team Leader approached me and asked what I was going to do with my photos. I told him that they’d be going on the website of the people who’d asked me to attend the launch. THEN he said that he’d like to download the photos when I had them uploaded as he’d left his own camera behind him.
Some people mightn’t think twice about saying ‘ok’ to this request. I, on the other hand, don’t like my images being downloaded by others (thus I’ve recently started to put my name on the ones I upload to this blog). This guy was supposed to be a marketing agency team leader, so he couldn’t be that daft as to think that my photos would be free for the taking, especially when he was being paid (or at least I presume he was) to take his own images.
I didn’t want to get into an ‘awkward’ discussion about prices for images in front of customers and staff in the shop (and I hadn’t a clue how to address the subject either), so I told TL that the photos probably wouldn’t be great quality if he was to download them, to which he responded that they were for an image upload website. He asked me for my phone number, which I gave to him.
Email me your images
A few days later, lo and behold, TL phoned me. The conversation went like this:
TL: ‘Have you those photos uploaded’
Me: ‘No, I haven’t had a chance yet, I’ve been up to my eyes’
TL: ‘When are you going to have them uploaded?’
Me: ‘Well, hopefully by this weekend’
TL: ‘I was thinking you could email me the images when you’re uploading them’
Me: ‘Well, there will be a fee for the images, you know?’ (I really hope that this doesn’t sound condescending. As I said this, I could feel a roar in my ears, and my heart pounding in my chest. I’ve never asked for a fee for anything before and I’m very uncomfortable with it as it’s new territory, yet, at the same time, I believed I was entitled to do so.)
TL: ‘A FEE???’
Me: ‘Um….yes….’
TL: I didn’t realise there’d be a fee. Weren’t you meant to be there anyway?
Me: ‘Em…yes….but it was my own decision to take photographs’
TL: You’ve put me in a very awkward position. I’ve promised those photographs to my client’s Head Office’
When he said this I was absolutely gobsmacked! Imagine telling someone else they could have my images too.
Me: ‘Well look, perhaps you’d like to go away and have a think about it’ (which would also give me time to compose myself and to think about it too)
TL: ‘Yes, I think I’ll have to. I didn’t realise there’d be a fee involved’
That was more or less the way the conversation went.
Email ME your images!
Two days later I got an email from a sales rep who requested that I email him the photos from *both* launches as *both* clients were getting anxious.
Considering the supply of photographs was not an element of the original service provided (by us), and that Thursday’s client had a professional photographer there, I fail to see why this client would want my images…..which leaves Friday’s client….and their marketing agency.
I thought about emailing watermarked thumbnails to the sales rep. Then I thought about it some more and realised I didn’t want to spend time and energy on something that wouldn’t produce any return.
Look, it’s not like I was going to demand an exhorbitant amount of money in return for the images, but I do think I’m entitled to something, and nobody actually bothered to ask how much I was looking for. The minute Mr. TL heard the word ‘fee’, he put down the phone and called Mr. Sales Rep, obviously of the opinion that Mr. Sales Rep would succeed in getting the images out of me.
I told my brother what had happened. He compared it to a photographer turning up at a wedding with no camera and asking the guests for their photos. The idea was so outlandish that I couldn’t help but laugh, and yet, that’s basically what’s happened here….isn’t it?
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks for reading.
26 Responses to “Oops, I forgot my camera. Can I have your photos?”
Leave a Reply
Here is the salient point as far as I’m concerned, you said it.
‘Then I thought about it some more and realised I didn’t want to spend time and energy on something that wouldn’t produce any return.’
You are entitled for a return on what your do. You are not a charity.
SusanC says: Thanks Stephen – comment much appreciated. I think I should print that sentence out and stick it on the front door where I’ll see it every morning. 
Its fair enough to ask for the photos so long as they are willing to make some sort of recompense, however an email from “a sales rep who requested that I email him the photos from *both* launches as *both* clients were getting anxious” is totally taking the you know what ! It all sounds very unprofessional to me, and i certainly wouldnt hav sent any photos.
Hope it all worked out well for you, thanks for sharing
That’s incredibly cheeky, I think you did the right thing by sticking up for yourself. You put in the work, so you should reap the benefits – not somebody who couldn’t even be bothered to show up on time. I think that it was incredibly unprofessional for him to go behind your back to the sales rep. It’s not as if you were being unreasonable and I’m sure ye could have reached some kind of arrangement that suited you both.
If you do decide to give them the images for free then I think you should definitely watermark them and ask them to link to you – if they’re getting them for nothing they should at least credit you.
SusanC says: Jonathan, thanks very much for reading and commenting. Your name was mentioned to me, at the time, as someone whose advice I should ask, but I didn’t want to bother you. I agree with you about the unprofessionalism. (There were a few other things went on that day that I haven’t mentioned as it would detract from the main point of the post.)
SusanC says: Thanks Fiona. I was so annoyed at first at Mr. TL, that I had a fleeting moment where I thought of contacting ‘The Client’ myself and saying ‘Hey, look, I have these great images that I took last Friday’, and then giving the images for free. 
Could you imagine?
Just consider yourself part of a professional education network. You have been thrown into the role of educating those who need the by-product of your skills. You probably need to politely point out issues of real cost, opportunity cost and copyright.
Things cost. You wouldn’t have the camera or a cameraphone without paying real money for it. If either produce items of value, they cost.
There isn’t a month that passes without someone expecting a free service on the back of recording gear I purchased out of my own discretionary income. The biggest problem for me is time because when I put production time into a project, it sucks away opportunities to accomplish other, more pressing things. In Ireland, that opportunity cost doesn’t deserve even a thank you note passed along through channels.
It gets worse when you share images via a Creative Commons copyright. Too many Irish freesheets fail to respect (or even understand) the concept of copyright as it pertains to images found via online search.
Good luck!
I don’t know the team-leader, but I’d send him the photos , free of charge, but very heavily watermarked!
on second thoughts, cut out the middle man and go directly to the client with printed samples. Ignore the TL
First the joke…having read your post, I scroll down and the G+ and FB bar has the rider “Sharing is Caring”:)
That aside, they have a huge cheek!
The client asked you to be there in one capacity and them to be there in another.
It was obviously their job to have the pics taken and they failed.
They may have had to pay a photographer, as in the first day or do it themselves(if they had turned up on time).
While I always help people out, generally they have already helped me out or I feel they will at some stage. The “demanding” approach taken by TL would lead one to believe that your assistance would not even be appreciated, never mind reciprocated.
Money is not always needed, but some promise of a return favour is.
Sometimes you have to be blunt!
You can bet the Marketing Team Lead wouldnt be chasing you if there was not something in it for him. He was hired and, importantly, probably paid by the client. One of the things he must have promised them was photographs. Now he wants you to give him your photographs for free so he can pass them on to his client as part of a package he gets paid for.
It strikes me from the story you tell that this guy is far from professional. First his team show up late after the show started and then he announces he forgot HIS camera. Now while I dont know his gear or skill level it does seem photography is low down his list of priorities and regardless of skill he would be busy managing the team so we can guess that his photos would have been below the level of your photographs and the professional photographer from Thursday. There is a reason people hire professional photographers and it’s not as a backup in case they forget their own camera on the day.
These are photographs he promised to his client and now he cant deliver but his problems go far beyond how soon will you upload. Perhaps you should tell him the photos are uploaded and will be available to him and his client as soon as he pays a fee you specify. If he is still unwilling to pay you can tell him you will just contact the client directly explain the situation to them and offer them the photographs directly.
Gerry O'Mahony says: Getting paid for your work? Now, that is a novel concept. More and more society is being fed with idea that it is “good” to help a neighbour, “good” to help an organisation, “good” to do something for your fellow planet dwellers, and if local even more so; and you are being a “really good guy/gal” if you do that something for nada. Therein lies the crux of the whole issue in my mind when it comes to photography and the income that could be generated from it by those lucky enough to have what I call ‘The Eye’. The Eye is not a physical part of any human being; it’s the combination of the eye and mind working together to ‘see’ something that those not blessed/cursed with the gift can never see. And to add even more conundrums and confusion to it all, some are blessed with the gift and do not even realise it until someone else points it out to them. “”Good Lord! How did you manage to get that shot?” can be the reaction sometimes to what the photographer has captured as a matter of course. To the photographer it was simply doing what came naturally but to the wider public it was a thing of amazement. Sometimes that is when the penny finally drops and the photographer cottons on to the fact that this could earn him/her some big bucks/euros/pounds. But, and excuse the negative at the beginning of the sentence, how then does Joe Soap with his image capturing device suddenly change from being the free ‘photo call guy on demand’ to the photographer for hire without upsetting those potential clients he has been happily snapping away pics for without any charge for however long?
Let’s all be grown ups on this. If a wall in your house needs to be tiled I do not think that there would be too many skilled at the art of tiling willing to ‘do it’ and simply be thought of as being ‘a good man’ for doing it. Try it and see how long your wall is gonna be waiting.
Realising that you have an ability to see a moment, record it on a memory card or a roll of film is only halfway towards what should be a reasonable outcome for you, the photographer. The final outcome should be that the next time you roll your shopping trolley to the checkout at Tesco, some of the wad of cash you hand over to get the goodies out the door legally was earned by your ability to have ‘The Eye’.
A shot that could have paid for the weekly milk…but didn’t. http://www.flickr.com/photos/65736330@N03/sets/72157627482577895/
SusanC says: Bernie, thanks for the comment. I look forward to discussion on this topic in our lectures next week.
SusanC says: Michéal, thank you for your thoughts on this. I finished going through the images today and I’m leaning towards sending the watermarked versions.
I read Gerry O’Mahoney’s response with regard to ‘The Eye’ and I thought….well, who says the images are going to be suitable for the client anyway? I didn’t set out to take photos for the client, who will obviously want the photos to be taken from a particular perspective in order to promote themselves. I took the images, in fact, to promote the people I was there with (who are a terrific bunch, by the way). So, yet another aspect to be taken into consideration.
Great image Gerry, by the way, thanks for posting.
SusanC says: Oh Good Lord, Pat, but only you! I laughed so hard when I read the first part of your comment.
Thanks for the reply. I don’t think I’d receive as much as a ‘Thank you’ from TL as, in his eyes, I seemed to be obliged to supply the photos for his use. His manner on the day left a lot to be desired and was far from professional. But, as I mentioned earlier, I left the ‘tales’ out as there were some things that I didn’t think warranted wasting precious pixels on. (Try saying that out loud!)
SusanC says: Thanks Declan. Yes, I have no doubt he was paid by the client. He didn’t deliver on two counts, and, not only that, had the audacity to tell me that ‘I had put HIM in an awkward position’. I’m still shaking my head at that one.
It looks like the general consensus is to upload/email the watermarked images. Time to make a NEW, bigger and BETTER watermark!
For some reason photographers are often times undervalued.
People often times expect photographers to share their photos for free and they will get “credits” in return. But how long will they do it for “credtits”?
I encourage photographers to charge for their work and not leave the impression that photography is a free service.
I recently had a conversation with one of the photographers who is been doing it for years and years and he thinks that “photography is now a cheap and undervalued profession”. It’s so sad to hear this kind of statements from someone who is done it for years.
Thanks for writing this blog post, you have every right to charge for your images and this guy shouldn’t be surprised by this.
SusanC says: Thanks Berit. I can understand the sentiments expressed by that photographer you spoke to. More people have access to good cameras now than, say, forty years ago, and quite a lot of people are very good at taking photographs too. Add into the mix those who supply images on cd for next to nothing and the profession is bound to suffer. Those are my thoughts on it anyway.
Watermarked images, reduced in size, were emailed this evening, along with copyright info. I will, most likely, not be popular.
Hi Susan.
Thanks for writing a great article
I agree all your photos should be heavily watermarked and or you should send an invoice.
However I disagree that a lot of people are good at taking photos. More to the point a lot of people “think” they are good at taking photos.
There is a growing trend with people picking up an expensive camera and within a few months they have a facebook photography page set up and competition after competition in a race to see how many like they can get on there page with the result of everyones facebook mail being spammed with “vote for me” messages. I wont name names.
Something to think about:
To be a great photographer does that mean you just need a great camera?
To be a great cook does that mean you just need a great oven?
Photography and video production have become a very cheap profession even do it is a highly skilled creative work.
Check out this video of a very common conversation between client and photographer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8EeC4ZKsV8&feature=related
SusanC says: Brian, thanks for commenting. I agree, for the most part, with what you’re saying. I didn’t mean to imply, of course, that owning good equpment makes a good photographer. I think though that those who are interested in photography, and may have some sort of aptitude for it, have more of an opportunity to practise it today, thanks to equipment being more accessible to them. My first camera was an Olympus Trip Junior and I could barely afford to use it what with the price of buying film and then having to get it developed.
Yes, agreed, there are those who *think* they take good photographs or make good videos. There are also customers who are quite happy to purchase products from these people, because they can’t tell the difference themselves. All these factors contribute to making the ‘professional’ feel undervalued.
Very cheeky indeed. You certainly did the right thing. Some Team Leader he is if he forgot his camera.
I look forward to hearing the next instalment.
Very interesting and well written account. And good responses. I take photographs for work but do not have ‘the eye’. Strikes me the photographers need to store their images online using a system that, by default, charges for a download/print. I do not know this chap but read his front page http://www.martinmullenphotography.com/
‘All images are available to purchase. For enquiries please use the contact link above.’ Make it easier for people to pay.
http://www.redbubble.com/people/aspire?utm_source=RB&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=promo_badge_buy_at_rb
SusanC says: Hi John.
Apologies for taking so long to verify your reply – things are busy around here at the moment.
I’m not sure whether I have the eye myself, but I like to think that occasionally I turn out something ‘half daycint’.
Thanks for the comments and the link to Martin Mullen’s website. A system like redbubble seems like a good idea. I had seen it before but hadn’t paid too much attention to it. It might be time to take a closer look.
Here is the salient point as far as I’m concerned, you said it.
‘Then I thought about it some more and realised I didn’t want to spend time and energy on something that wouldn’t produce any return.’
You are entitled for a return on what your do. You are not a charity.
Thanks Stephen – comment much appreciated. I think I should print that sentence out and stick it on the front door where I’ll see it every morning.
Its fair enough to ask for the photos so long as they are willing to make some sort of recompense, however an email from “a sales rep who requested that I email him the photos from *both* launches as *both* clients were getting anxious” is totally taking the you know what ! It all sounds very unprofessional to me, and i certainly wouldnt hav sent any photos.
Hope it all worked out well for you, thanks for sharing
That’s incredibly cheeky, I think you did the right thing by sticking up for yourself. You put in the work, so you should reap the benefits – not somebody who couldn’t even be bothered to show up on time. I think that it was incredibly unprofessional for him to go behind your back to the sales rep. It’s not as if you were being unreasonable and I’m sure ye could have reached some kind of arrangement that suited you both.
If you do decide to give them the images for free then I think you should definitely watermark them and ask them to link to you – if they’re getting them for nothing they should at least credit you.
Jonathan, thanks very much for reading and commenting. Your name was mentioned to me, at the time, as someone whose advice I should ask, but I didn’t want to bother you.
I agree with you about the unprofessionalism. (There were a few other things went on that day that I haven’t mentioned as it would detract from the main point of the post.)
Thanks Fiona. I was so annoyed at first at Mr. TL, that I had a fleeting moment where I thought of contacting ‘The Client’ myself and saying ‘Hey, look, I have these great images that I took last Friday’, and then giving the images for free.
Could you imagine?
Just consider yourself part of a professional education network. You have been thrown into the role of educating those who need the by-product of your skills. You probably need to politely point out issues of real cost, opportunity cost and copyright.
Things cost. You wouldn’t have the camera or a cameraphone without paying real money for it. If either produce items of value, they cost.
There isn’t a month that passes without someone expecting a free service on the back of recording gear I purchased out of my own discretionary income. The biggest problem for me is time because when I put production time into a project, it sucks away opportunities to accomplish other, more pressing things. In Ireland, that opportunity cost doesn’t deserve even a thank you note passed along through channels.
It gets worse when you share images via a Creative Commons copyright. Too many Irish freesheets fail to respect (or even understand) the concept of copyright as it pertains to images found via online search.
Good luck!
I don’t know the team-leader, but I’d send him the photos , free of charge, but very heavily watermarked!
on second thoughts, cut out the middle man and go directly to the client with printed samples. Ignore the TL
First the joke…having read your post, I scroll down and the G+ and FB bar has the rider “Sharing is Caring”:)
That aside, they have a huge cheek!
The client asked you to be there in one capacity and them to be there in another.
It was obviously their job to have the pics taken and they failed.
They may have had to pay a photographer, as in the first day or do it themselves(if they had turned up on time).
While I always help people out, generally they have already helped me out or I feel they will at some stage. The “demanding” approach taken by TL would lead one to believe that your assistance would not even be appreciated, never mind reciprocated.
Money is not always needed, but some promise of a return favour is.
Sometimes you have to be blunt!
You can bet the Marketing Team Lead wouldnt be chasing you if there was not something in it for him. He was hired and, importantly, probably paid by the client. One of the things he must have promised them was photographs. Now he wants you to give him your photographs for free so he can pass them on to his client as part of a package he gets paid for.
It strikes me from the story you tell that this guy is far from professional. First his team show up late after the show started and then he announces he forgot HIS camera. Now while I dont know his gear or skill level it does seem photography is low down his list of priorities and regardless of skill he would be busy managing the team so we can guess that his photos would have been below the level of your photographs and the professional photographer from Thursday. There is a reason people hire professional photographers and it’s not as a backup in case they forget their own camera on the day.
These are photographs he promised to his client and now he cant deliver but his problems go far beyond how soon will you upload. Perhaps you should tell him the photos are uploaded and will be available to him and his client as soon as he pays a fee you specify. If he is still unwilling to pay you can tell him you will just contact the client directly explain the situation to them and offer them the photographs directly.
Getting paid for your work? Now, that is a novel concept. More and more society is being fed with idea that it is “good” to help a neighbour, “good” to help an organisation, “good” to do something for your fellow planet dwellers, and if local even more so; and you are being a “really good guy/gal” if you do that something for nada. Therein lies the crux of the whole issue in my mind when it comes to photography and the income that could be generated from it by those lucky enough to have what I call ‘The Eye’. The Eye is not a physical part of any human being; it’s the combination of the eye and mind working together to ‘see’ something that those not blessed/cursed with the gift can never see. And to add even more conundrums and confusion to it all, some are blessed with the gift and do not even realise it until someone else points it out to them. “”Good Lord! How did you manage to get that shot?” can be the reaction sometimes to what the photographer has captured as a matter of course. To the photographer it was simply doing what came naturally but to the wider public it was a thing of amazement. Sometimes that is when the penny finally drops and the photographer cottons on to the fact that this could earn him/her some big bucks/euros/pounds. But, and excuse the negative at the beginning of the sentence, how then does Joe Soap with his image capturing device suddenly change from being the free ‘photo call guy on demand’ to the photographer for hire without upsetting those potential clients he has been happily snapping away pics for without any charge for however long?
Let’s all be grown ups on this. If a wall in your house needs to be tiled I do not think that there would be too many skilled at the art of tiling willing to ‘do it’ and simply be thought of as being ‘a good man’ for doing it. Try it and see how long your wall is gonna be waiting.
Realising that you have an ability to see a moment, record it on a memory card or a roll of film is only halfway towards what should be a reasonable outcome for you, the photographer. The final outcome should be that the next time you roll your shopping trolley to the checkout at Tesco, some of the wad of cash you hand over to get the goodies out the door legally was earned by your ability to have ‘The Eye’.
A shot that would have paid for the weekly milk!…but didn’t.
A shot that could have paid for the weekly milk…but didn’t. http://www.flickr.com/photos/65736330@N03/sets/72157627482577895/
Bernie, thanks for the comment. I look forward to discussion on this topic in our lectures next week.
Michéal, thank you for your thoughts on this. I finished going through the images today and I’m leaning towards sending the watermarked versions.
I read Gerry O’Mahoney’s response with regard to ‘The Eye’ and I thought….well, who says the images are going to be suitable for the client anyway? I didn’t set out to take photos for the client, who will obviously want the photos to be taken from a particular perspective in order to promote themselves. I took the images, in fact, to promote the people I was there with (who are a terrific bunch, by the way). So, yet another aspect to be taken into consideration.
Great image Gerry, by the way, thanks for posting.
Oh Good Lord, Pat, but only you! I laughed so hard when I read the first part of your comment.
Thanks for the reply. I don’t think I’d receive as much as a ‘Thank you’ from TL as, in his eyes, I seemed to be obliged to supply the photos for his use. His manner on the day left a lot to be desired and was far from professional. But, as I mentioned earlier, I left the ‘tales’ out as there were some things that I didn’t think warranted wasting precious pixels on. (Try saying that out loud!)
Thanks Declan. Yes, I have no doubt he was paid by the client. He didn’t deliver on two counts, and, not only that, had the audacity to tell me that ‘I had put HIM in an awkward position’. I’m still shaking my head at that one.
It looks like the general consensus is to upload/email the watermarked images. Time to make a NEW, bigger and BETTER watermark!
For some reason photographers are often times undervalued.
People often times expect photographers to share their photos for free and they will get “credits” in return. But how long will they do it for “credtits”?
I encourage photographers to charge for their work and not leave the impression that photography is a free service.
I recently had a conversation with one of the photographers who is been doing it for years and years and he thinks that “photography is now a cheap and undervalued profession”. It’s so sad to hear this kind of statements from someone who is done it for years.
Thanks for writing this blog post, you have every right to charge for your images and this guy shouldn’t be surprised by this.
Thanks Berit. I can understand the sentiments expressed by that photographer you spoke to. More people have access to good cameras now than, say, forty years ago, and quite a lot of people are very good at taking photographs too. Add into the mix those who supply images on cd for next to nothing and the profession is bound to suffer. Those are my thoughts on it anyway.
Watermarked images, reduced in size, were emailed this evening, along with copyright info. I will, most likely, not be popular.
Hi Susan.
Thanks for writing a great article
I agree all your photos should be heavily watermarked and or you should send an invoice.
However I disagree that a lot of people are good at taking photos. More to the point a lot of people “think” they are good at taking photos.
There is a growing trend with people picking up an expensive camera and within a few months they have a facebook photography page set up and competition after competition in a race to see how many like they can get on there page with the result of everyones facebook mail being spammed with “vote for me” messages. I wont name names.
Something to think about:
To be a great photographer does that mean you just need a great camera?
To be a great cook does that mean you just need a great oven?
Photography and video production have become a very cheap profession even do it is a highly skilled creative work.
Check out this video of a very common conversation between client and photographer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8EeC4ZKsV8&feature=related
Brian, thanks for commenting. I agree, for the most part, with what you’re saying. I didn’t mean to imply, of course, that owning good equpment makes a good photographer. I think though that those who are interested in photography, and may have some sort of aptitude for it, have more of an opportunity to practise it today, thanks to equipment being more accessible to them. My first camera was an Olympus Trip Junior and I could barely afford to use it what with the price of buying film and then having to get it developed.
Yes, agreed, there are those who *think* they take good photographs or make good videos. There are also customers who are quite happy to purchase products from these people, because they can’t tell the difference themselves. All these factors contribute to making the ‘professional’ feel undervalued.
Very cheeky indeed. You certainly did the right thing. Some Team Leader he is if he forgot his camera.
I look forward to hearing the next instalment.
oh yes Susan, very true in this world unfortunately
Very interesting and well written account. And good responses. I take photographs for work but do not have ‘the eye’. Strikes me the photographers need to store their images online using a system that, by default, charges for a download/print. I do not know this chap but read his front page http://www.martinmullenphotography.com/
‘All images are available to purchase. For enquiries please use the contact link above.’ Make it easier for people to pay.
http://www.redbubble.com/people/aspire?utm_source=RB&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=promo_badge_buy_at_rb
Hi John.
Apologies for taking so long to verify your reply – things are busy around here at the moment.
I’m not sure whether I have the eye myself, but I like to think that occasionally I turn out something ‘half daycint’.
Thanks for the comments and the link to Martin Mullen’s website. A system like redbubble seems like a good idea. I had seen it before but hadn’t paid too much attention to it. It might be time to take a closer look.